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Mark Smyth (Mark__n_ireland)
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Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

s'pose I better ease myself back into the swing of things by creating a new folder.

Colchicum tesselated hybrid ex I. Young

flowering today along with C. tenori and the small form of ? bought at the discussion weekend last year. Maggi you bought 'em too. More Colchicums later this week.


Mark, Antrim. Northern Ireland. z8+
Lesley Isabel Cox (Lcox)
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Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a lovely one Mark. Very pleased to see you back.
Lesley Cox, Lower South Island, New Zealand
Anthony Darby (Adarby)
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Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll second that on both counts Lesley. That flower looks like it would float away if you cut it!
Anthony Darby, Dunblane, Perthshire.
Anne Wright (Annsie)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It wisnae me! I didn't plant this little colchicum, it came up in a pot of narcissus seedlings from an exchange. Can someone identify it for me?
colchicum sp?
Here it is next to Cyclamen hederifolium Ruby Glow for scale.
colchicum and cyclamen
Anne, North Yorkshire, England
John Forrest (Jof)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anne
What a nice surprise but I'm not the one to ask about Colchicums but I do know that my C. aggripinum seems rather early this year. These are the first 2 up out of a clump of about 30 all from a single bulb in about 10 years.I like this sp. because the leaves are small enough not to be a nuisance after flowering.


John Forrest, Blackpool, North West England, UK
Mark Smyth (Mark__n_ireland)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anne it's possibly C atticum
Mark, Antrim. Northern Ireland. z8+
Franz Hadacek (Fhadacek)
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Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John
I like Colchicum aggripinum because it grows well in my weadow and one can it easily recognizes. I like to see your great pics.
Franz Hadacek, Vienna, Austria
Lesley Isabel Cox (Lcox)
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Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 4:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John, is that an elderly plant of Helichrysum milforidiae at the colchicum's feet? But just nip out and remove that little oxalis lurking there.
Lesley Cox, Lower South Island, New Zealand
John Forrest (Jof)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By gum lass has tha bin eating carrots? There's nowt wrong with your eyes. It is indeed Helichrysum milfordiae which has seen better days, some day I will resurrect it by cutting or transplant. The Oxalis is O. squamata and it pays its dues with little red flowers, so I'll just leave it be.

Some call this Colchicum pyrenaicum but it was Merendera when I collected seed in the Pyrenees 25 or more years ago. As can be seen it does vary but I have never selected out the better forms.



I don't know what has upset this one perhaps it's just a bad hair day.


John Forrest, Blackpool, North West England, UK
Franz Hadacek (Fhadacek)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John, Great pictures and great plants.

Merendera montana (L) Lange = M. bulbocodium Ram. = M. pyrenaica auct.
Many names!!!
A native of Pyrenees, Spain, and Portugal. It grows on stony hillside and in dry turf.

Merendera, with perianth segments not forming a tube.
Merendera

Colchicum, with the perianth segments joined into a long perianth tube
Colchicum
Franz Hadacek, Vienna, Austria
John Forrest (Jof)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Franz
Lovely pictures to perfectly illustrate the point. Thank you.
John Forrest, Blackpool, North West England, UK
Paul Tyerman (Tyerman)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,

Those dark, almost reddish, Merendera are quite interesting. Somewhat darker than I had realised Merendera came in, but I don't actually have any experience with that species. Given how picky Colchicum are from seed I had always assumed that the Merenderas were difficult to germinate, but obviously yours did OK. Did you get a good germination rate? Given you have different clones do they actually produce seed? So many of the family seldom set seed as we generally tend to only have a single clone in our collections and some are definitely shy to self-pollinate (except Colchicum kessleringii which doesn't seem to have any qualms about it, even if only a single bulb! LOL) within their own clone.

Well done for having germinated them and it is wonderful that you ended up with differing forms in the seedlings. Must have been a nice surprise when they started flowering, particularly those broad petalled ones which stand out so well.
Paul T. Canberra, Australia.
John Forrest (Jof)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paul
Do you know I haven't a clue if they produce seed. Bulbs like this often don't show the seed pod, but I have never noticed signs of any, nor any tiny babies, just divisions. There are various things I grow which never produce seed. I will certainly have a look later on because I did see bees visiting whilst I was photographing.
John Forrest, Blackpool, North West England, UK
John Forrest (Jof)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are lots of repeat flowerings of earlier things after the heavy and welcome downpours to our parched plots. Some things just seem to carry on flowering for months like

Hypoxis parvula x rhodohypoxis baurii



Not strictly flowering but the seed heads of Allium christophii are still decorative.



Yet another reminder that summer is passing as all the things with specific epithets autumnale begin to flower.

Scilla autumnale


John Forrest, Blackpool, North West England, UK
Lesley Isabel Cox (Lcox)
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Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 1:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John, why I mentioned the Helichrysum is because I assume your Colchicum is in a warm, sunny place and in my experience, the Helichrysum prefers cool, moist soil. It doesn't LOOK as if it would but its natural home is among almost permanent mist and cloud. I never had a better plant than years ago when it lived in someone else's nursery (my little number was housed inside his big version) and every day it was drenched with mist and light rain as he watered his young rhododendrons. I've never had it so good since then.
Lesley Cox, Lower South Island, New Zealand
Franz Hadacek (Fhadacek)
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Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The first Crocus (Crocus speciosus ssp. ilgazensis) flowers in my garden together with Colchicum bivonae syn. C. bowlesianum. Both are beautiful species and are native of Mediterranean Area.

Crocus speciosus ssp. ilgazensis
Crocus speciosus ssp. ilgazensis

Colchicum bivonae
Colchicum bivonae
Franz Hadacek, Vienna, Austria
John Forrest (Jof)
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Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Talk about losing the thread! I thought I was on the August one not the Colchicum one when I posted mine and it was only 9.10pm.

Lesley
You are right about the Helichrysum. I have one in a shadier part of the garden where it is healthy looking but it flowers better with more light. It's difficult to get the balance right.
John Forrest, Blackpool, North West England, UK
Lesley Isabel Cox (Lcox)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 6:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I suppose, in effect, the bad hair Colchicum is a double or at least semi-double.
Lesley Cox, Lower South Island, New Zealand
Thomas Huber (Hubi1)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 8:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Franz, your speciosus shows a much devided, long style, while in ssp ilgazensis it is six branched and much shorter than the anthers,
so I think yours is ssp speciosus
Thomas Huber, Neustadt/Hessen, Germany
Andrew Ward (Andrew)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just one colchicum flowering for me at the moment.
<src="colchicumcorsicumside">
Colchicum corsicum side view <src="colchicumcorsicumopen">
And a few minutes later when it opened.
Fingers crossed, if you click on the images you can see the originals, these are 1Mbytes images.
Could you let me know if it works for you.
Thank you.
Andrew, North Cambridgeshire, England.
Franz Hadacek (Fhadacek)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thomas,
Thanks, I know the description, but I collected the corms at the Ilgaz Dag Pass. Enclosed a picture from the wild.
C. speciosus flowers in my garden always one month later.


Crocus speciosus ssp. ilgazenis at Ilgaz Dag Pass
Crocus-speciosus-ssp.-ilgaz.jpg
Franz Hadacek, Vienna, Austria
Franz Hadacek (Fhadacek)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andrew,
The 1Mbytes images works perfect. Beautiful shots.
Franz Hadacek, Vienna, Austria
Jim Fisher (Garrideb)
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Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andrew: Your clickable 1 MB images also worked
for me, much to my surprise. How did you manage
that ?
Jim Fisher, Washington D.C., USA, Z7
Howard Clase (Hclase)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In Newfoundland everything is later! I'm just lifting my Colchicum corms for re-planting. They won't flower until late September or October. I've only got the ordinary nursery trade species though, nothing exciting. I do have aggripinum, from Broadleigh I think, years ago. No-one seems to sell that in North America that I've seen. It's the only rock garden taxon that I've come across that's hardy outside and increases wonderfully well - why is it so expensive?
Howard Clase, St John's, Newfoundland. (Where it's 3.5 hours earlier than the time given above!)
Mark Smyth (Mark__n_ireland)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no reason Howard other than taking advantage of willing customers. At work we have speciosum 'Album' for $3 which is expensive when you think how fast a colony can grow. I got cheap bulbs this week. Not wanting to rub salt in the wound C. cupani cost me £4/$6 for 6. C. parnassicum was £2/$3 for 5 and C. baytopiorum was £2/$3 for 5. I also got 12 Crocus vernus for £1/$1.50. These were obtained from a specialist bulb sale and were growers surplus bulbs. It is a fantastic sale and well worth attending if you are close enough. Next year in is in Essex very close to Stansted airport.
Mark, Antrim. Northern Ireland. z8+
Paul Tyerman (Tyerman)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mark..... enjoy the prices..... speciosum album is rare as hens teeth here..... managed to buy one this year for $15 which is the first time I can recall ever seeing it for sale.
Paul T. Canberra, Australia.
Thomas Huber (Hubi1)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Franz, ssp speciosus is very widespread in Turkey, I think that it also occurs on Ilgaz Dag, where you took the photo?

Tony, can you help us!!!?
Thomas Huber, Neustadt/Hessen, Germany
Andrew Ward (Andrew)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim,

How well do you know HTML code ? I just put the "a href" start and end tags round the uploaded image pointer, with the http address linking to the picture on my web space.

I have problems unloading sometimes to the server, but that's different problem, but it did mean only one picture in the crocus thread works at the moment.

Does that make sense or is that double Dutch ( no offence intended for Dutch readers ) ?

Andrew, North Cambridgeshire, England.
Tony Goode (Agoode)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 7:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that Thomas is rght about C. speciosus ssp ilgazensis. I have (or had) the plant illustrated below collected on Ilgaz Dag. This does fit the description of C. speciosus ssp ilgazensis being smaller than C. speciosus ssp speciosus and having a shorter less branched style which is shorter than the anthers.
C speciosus Ilgaz Dag
C speciosus Ilgaz Dag
It is likely that both subspcies grow on Ilgaz Dag.

The distribution of Crocuses is still relatively poorly known. New species or subspecies are going to be discovered as access to remote places improves. Indeed a new form of C. flavus was found was found last year, disjunct from the known area of distribution and having dark bronze outer petals ('Normal' C flavus is pure yellow, unmarked.) It may be described as a new subspecies in due course.
Tony Goode. Norwich UK. Mintemp -8C
Jim Fisher (Garrideb)
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Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 2:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andrew:
Volkommen begrijpelijk nr :-) .
I do know a bit of HTML, having set up a perfunctory
website myself. Following your lead, I managed to
send HTML mail to myself referencing a suitable .jpg
file out on the net. Thanks for the instructions.
Jim Fisher, Washington D.C., USA, Z7
Franz Hadacek (Fhadacek)
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Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is possible, that both subspecies of C. speciosus grow on Ilgaz Dag.
But why my Crocus flowers 6 week in former times and is smaller around half than C. speciosus ssp. speciosus.
Are the shorter style and longer anthers the only characteristic?

Franz Hadacek, Vienna, Austria
John Forrest (Jof)
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Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have already posted a picture of Colchicum aggripinum but couldn't resist taking this other clump in the sunshine today. Can you see the interloper?


John Forrest, Blackpool, North West England, UK
Margaret Young (Myoung)
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Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's a lovely clump, John. C. aggripinum is so pretty. Is that a perfectly colour-matched Geranium lurking at about 1 o'clock?
We love these little geraniums and have the driveway full of assorted ones.
M. Young, Aberdeen North East Scotland
Lesley Isabel Cox (Lcox)
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Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 3:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it G. `Ballerina?'
Lesley Cox, Lower South Island, New Zealand
Thomas Huber (Hubi1)
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Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 8:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Franz, style and anthers are the most important characteristics of ssp ilgazensis.
In my garden I have ssp speciosus flowering from August (not this year) until December in every height between 10 and 18 cm.

John, a beautiful picture of Colchicum aggripinum. I have two of your bulbs flowering in my garden showing 7 petals and 7 anthers.
Thomas Huber, Neustadt/Hessen, Germany
Tony Goode (Agoode)
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Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Franz, the only other feature that Brian Mathew notes is that the corm tunic of ssp ilgazensis is membraneous splitting into parallel fibres with no basal rings. Ssp speciosus has a harder tunic which does split into basal rings but not parallel fibres. The trouble with relatively little known taxa is that we do not always know how variable they are, it could be that there are many intermediate forms between the two named subspecies found on Ilgaz Dag in which case perhaps only one name is needed. I have some seedlings from seed collected there, it will be interesting to see what forms I get .... but we will have to wait a year or two:-)
Tony Goode. Norwich UK. Mintemp -8C
John Forrest (Jof)
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Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well spotted Maggi and right again Lesley for the ID.
John Forrest, Blackpool, North West England, UK
Mark Smyth (Mark__n_ireland)
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Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think I see a Ballerina
Mark, Antrim. Northern Ireland. z8+
Franz Hadacek (Fhadacek)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tony,
Thanks, for the extensive information. I think also that it is a relatively little known taxa and we do not know how variable they are. I photographed new blooms in the last days.
C. speciosus ssp. ilgazensis


C. speciosus ssp. ilgazensis
C. speciosus ssp. ilgazensis

C. speciosus ssp. ilgazensis
C. speciosus ssp. ilgazensis
Franz Hadacek, Vienna, Austria
Franz Hadacek (Fhadacek)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colour variation of Colchicum bivonae Guss. (syn. bowlesianum Burtt., C. latifolium Sibth.)
A variable species from NW. Turkey, Aegean Islands, Balkans, S. Italy, Corsica and Sardinia

Colchicum bivonae.
Colchicum bivonae
Colchicum bivonae
Colchicum bivonae
Colchicum bivonae
Colchicum bivonae
Franz Hadacek, Vienna, Austria
Mark Smyth (Mark__n_ireland)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

very nice Franz
Mark, Antrim. Northern Ireland. z8+
John Forrest (Jof)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beautiful C. bivonae, it's hard to pick a favourite.

Here is my humble offering

Colchicum speciosum album



I saw an interesting packet in Wyevale Garden Centre with a picture of what they said was C. autumnale album.



This is what came up



John Forrest, Blackpool, North West England, UK
Anthony Darby (Adarby)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The photos on bulb packets always deceive. One glaring example is the dried Cyclamen cilicium tubers with the doctored photo of a uniformly dark pink hederifolium on the front of the packet. The flowers are the wrong shape as well as the wrong colour. Needless to say, they are cilicium tubers as I have some flowering now from a packet bought a number of years ago. The photo hasn't changed as I saw some for sale last month. Prefer what you got to the doubles in the photo John.
Anthony Darby, Dunblane, Perthshire.
Mark Smyth (Mark__n_ireland)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm hoping to find Colchicums for sale at the Czech autumn show later this week
Mark, Antrim. Northern Ireland. z8+
Lesley Isabel Cox (Lcox)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lovely things Franz, as usual. John, you must agree with Anthony re the white Colchicum. Every year I come close to heaving my doubles, especially `Waterlily' which I think is disgusting. Every year I resist but soon I'll have enough to make a killing when I sell the lot to all the misguided folk who think they're lovely. (Like the elderly lady in whose garden there sits a bright green plaster rabbit. "It looks so narrrtural" she says. But then, she started life in Yorkshire.)
Lesley Cox, Lower South Island, New Zealand
Lesley Isabel Cox (Lcox)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God NO! I didn't mean Doreen.
Lesley Cox, Lower South Island, New Zealand
Anthony Darby (Adarby)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eeeee. What's this? Is tha casting nasturtiums at Yorkshire folk Lesley? You'll be lucky to get much brass out o' her for your reject colchicums if she's still got any Yorkshire blood flowing round her body, but then all the world's queer, except thee and me..... and even thee?!
Anthony Darby, Dunblane, Perthshire.
Anne Wright (Annsie)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 8:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By your quotation from the lady in question, she may have started life in Yorkshire but she's been corrupted by a spell in the south west. We're a bit more economical with our vowels!
Anne, North Yorkshire, England
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Causing trubble at t'mill, Lesley! Thi'll git a raight good seeing-to iffen Ah catch up wi' Thi lakin' in t' bluebell woods!

Green plaster rabbits? I've got real brown furry ones that look ever so narrrtural (and cost me nowt). Waterlily colchicums? Wouldn't take them off your hands for nowt now, not even as a peace offering (specially as I've a big clump of white ones that came with the house). But ELDERLY? I should be so lucky: two dollars off at the pictures and a half-price ski pass, can't wait!



Doreen Mear, Wanaka (Middle of South Island) New Zealand
John Forrest (Jof)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I quite like the odd double and some flowers.
John Forrest, Blackpool, North West England, UK
Lesley Isabel Cox (Lcox)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A gentlemanly and civilized (if misguided) comment John. In future I'll keep my (also misguided) attempts at a Yorkshire accent, strictly for those who've never been there. My grandmother used to say "They're all queer except thee and me and I'm not too sure about thee."
Lesley Cox, Lower South Island, New Zealand
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 4:19 pm: